I have been involved with the "family" but would prefer that my personal information remain anonymous. I can see that many people who used to be involved have been hurt. However, it seems that this hurt comes from bad people in unfortunate circumstances, not perverse teachings. I came across this blog, along with others, and am trying to piece together the whole picture.
OK. This is you opinion of the group and that is fine. I have a very different view. This is not begin said in a condescending tone. Just laying a clear line. Because lets face it when it comes down to faith there is no argument that can be made. So if you are here to argue faith you will find no one to take up the gauntlet. This is not about faith or beliefs.
anonymous said... What's so bad about believing you can make a positive difference in the world?
Dear anonymous - i do believe, no one has said,- "all the 'teachings' are 'bad', or wrong."
the problem is the foundation; ie: jack hickman, a delusional abuser. everything is based on him. if gary has changed that belief that's news to us... but i think not. i believe jack has taught gary to 'carry on'... and he has.
didn't jim jones have 'some' good teachings, and did 'some' good... for a while. or david koresh... his followers had faith in what he said. i could go on and on, with examples of 'good parts' of cults. but if the foundation is rotten... if there is reverence for a deluded leader and ALL his teachings... if there is one secret, there are more 'secrets'... things the leaders don't want the followers to know.
Here is my response to the statement, " the teachings don't seem to convey any negative messages.." This is not the question and/or concern. The concern for this group (as I see it) is the constant focus on "end times." This has been a common theme for decades. What happens as years and years go by and some of the group members begin to stir and realize that proably the "end times" aren't upon as as Abba has predicted... other members do things to create those circumstances. That is what we are seeing now. Jospeh and Gary are now having visions, and "prophecies" to bring back the wayward family members into believing the age old crap, "a great destruction" will occur. It's classic cultism. Naturally, with the need to create this external tragic event to prove the validity of the family), it has caused a rift (between CO and ME). Now, the gauntlet has been layed. Either a great destruction will take place as the nutty Gary and Joseph have predicted or life as we know will continue on after October of 2012. They will, at that point, have to come up with an excuse as to why the great destruction did not take place. My concern: Like Jim Jones as Jonestown, they will create their own great destruction. When you are dealing with extremism and cult mentalities, you can never predict where they will draw the line of excuses, "for Hashem." I know most people in the family wouldn't believe for a second that mass suicide/hommicde would be anything anyone would agree to. Most of the followers in any cult would never agree to such extreme choices. But, there comes a time when leaders take over and choices are few and far between. What I am warning against here is extremism. Believing you are the saving grace for the world is a bit much. If you are already in the mindset and believe that to be true (or at least a possibility), you are already gone. You are already in the hands of the leaders. You must start thinking for yourself (and your children). This is only going to get more intense as the year plays itself out. Start using better criteria for your religious beliefs. Instead of saying, "I'm a follower because it doesn't seems harmful..." start asking questions like, "If it were my child spunked off on, how would I feel about the 'religion' now?" Or perhaps ask the question, " Why would I want my religious ideas based on the rantings of a madman?"
How many of you heard the ridiculous story of Abba and Maggid? According to Abba, when he was a small child in Oregon his brother died. This was terribly tramatizing to Abba as he and his brother were very close. Shortly after the death of his brother, Abba came across a "Maggid" in the woods who told im stories and what-not about Jewishness. Abba asked his grandmother what a "Maggid" was. His grandmother being from backwoods Oregon in the 1930-40's naturally knew what a "maggid" was. According to Abba his grandmother told him a Maggid was like a little, Jewish spirit guide and that, oh yeah, their family were secret Jews. The only problem with this story according to Abba mother and sister (both quoted in Newsweek articles etc.) was that their family was NOT Jewish and had not Jewish ancestry at all. Oh... and also, Abba never had a brother! Wake up people! Your entire religious doctrine is based on a whack job! You are not Jewish. You were not adopted into Judaism or anything else based on this man's made up lineage. He has no covenant with God and you do not either based on signing a piece of paper. You were all raised in this craziness so it's difficult for you to see past it. I beg you: Start using the brain that God gave you. Look around, open your eyes. Jack Hickman was delussional. Mentally ill. (To the children of the first generation culters:) Do you really believe you have Adomic souls? Do you really believe this crap about Abba being allowed to go up to Guf and handpick (or at least be led to pick) your souls? WTF? It doesn't get more classic grandiose than that! BTW, delusions of grandiosity is a huge symptom of bipolar disorder and/or thought disorders. Are you really so far gone that you can't see the ridiculousness of all of this?
BTW, definition of Maggid: As per usual, Abba put his own spin on it. But then, what do expect from a secret Jew who couldn't even SPEAK Hebrew. Maggid (מַגִּיד), sometimes spelled as magid, is a traditional Eastern European Jewish religious itinerant preacher, skilled as a narrator of Torah and religious stories. A preacher of the more scholarly sort was called a "darshan", and usually occupied the official position of rabbi. The title of "maggid mesharim" (= "a preacher of uprightness"; abbreviated) probably dates from the sixteenth century.
The fact that the family members in CO have been told by Gary, Michael and Joseph that since they failed to slay the beast of the mountain, the mountain will fall and they must move to ME, is not a “making a positive difference” teaching. It is classic cult fear tactics and coercion. The fact that Gary and Joseph went to DIA to attempt to slay the beast, and that Gary “allowed the beast to enter the beast to enter his body in order to make a covenant with the beast” is not a positive message either. It is a scare tactic to frighten family members in CO so that they will move to ME. I guess the beast is only after those in CO and not those in ME. Not everyone is falling for these antics. This is horrible scary cult stuff and it happened last month not 30 years ago.
AJ here isnt in the group ( sarcasm). He just happened upon this blog and is flabbergasted by the overreaction to the information (sarcasm). We are so sorry AJ... Oh wait... no we're not.
It is not bad to want to make a positive difference in the world, what a cult does however is teach that you are the most special ones in the world and the only ones who can make a difference in the world. That is what this cult does. The children were taught by Jack that he travelled up into the spirit world, spoke to Yeshua and hand picked their souls.
What's so bad about believing you can make a positive difference in the world?
ReplyDeletefacepalm* really? are we back to this argument again?
ReplyDeleteOK let me ask you a question. Is this the first thing you read on this blog?
I browsed through the blog but the actual teachings don't seem to convey any negative messages.
ReplyDeleteOK, next question. Are you in the "family"?
ReplyDeleteI have been involved with the "family" but would prefer that my personal information remain anonymous. I can see that many people who used to be involved have been hurt. However, it seems that this hurt comes from bad people in unfortunate circumstances, not perverse teachings. I came across this blog, along with others, and am trying to piece together the whole picture.
ReplyDeleteOK. This is you opinion of the group and that is fine. I have a very different view. This is not begin said in a condescending tone. Just laying a clear line. Because lets face it when it comes down to faith there is no argument that can be made. So if you are here to argue faith you will find no one to take up the gauntlet. This is not about faith or beliefs.
ReplyDeleteanonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhat's so bad about believing you can make a positive difference in the world?
Dear anonymous - i do believe, no one has said,- "all the 'teachings' are 'bad', or wrong."
the problem is the foundation; ie: jack hickman, a delusional abuser. everything is based on him. if gary has changed that belief that's news to us... but i think not. i believe jack has taught gary to 'carry on'... and he has.
didn't jim jones have 'some' good teachings, and did 'some' good... for a while. or david koresh... his followers had faith in what he said.
i could go on and on, with examples of 'good parts' of cults. but if the foundation is rotten... if there is reverence for a deluded leader and ALL his teachings... if there is one secret, there are more 'secrets'... things the leaders don't want the followers to know.
Here is my response to the statement,
ReplyDelete" the teachings don't seem to convey any negative messages.."
This is not the question and/or concern. The concern for this group (as I see it) is the constant focus on "end times." This has been a common theme for decades. What happens as years and years go by and some of the group members begin to stir and realize that proably the "end times" aren't upon as as Abba has predicted... other members do things to create those circumstances. That is what we are seeing now. Jospeh and Gary are now having visions, and "prophecies" to bring back the wayward family members into believing the age old crap, "a great destruction" will occur. It's classic cultism. Naturally, with the need to create this external tragic event to prove the validity of the family), it has caused a rift (between CO and ME). Now, the gauntlet has been layed. Either a great destruction will take place as the nutty Gary and Joseph have predicted or life as we know will continue on after October of 2012. They will, at that point, have to come up with an excuse as to why the great destruction did not take place. My concern: Like Jim Jones as Jonestown, they will create their own great destruction. When you are dealing with extremism and cult mentalities, you can never predict where they will draw the line of excuses, "for Hashem." I know most people in the family wouldn't believe for a second that mass suicide/hommicde would be anything anyone would agree to. Most of the followers in any cult would never agree to such extreme choices. But, there comes a time when leaders take over and choices are few and far between. What I am warning against here is extremism. Believing you are the saving grace for the world is a bit much. If you are already in the mindset and believe that to be true (or at least a possibility), you are already gone. You are already in the hands of the leaders. You must start thinking for yourself (and your children). This is only going to get more intense as the year plays itself out. Start using better criteria for your religious beliefs. Instead of saying, "I'm a follower because it doesn't seems harmful..." start asking questions like, "If it were my child spunked off on, how would I feel about the 'religion' now?" Or perhaps ask the question, " Why would I want my religious ideas based on the rantings of a madman?"
How many of you heard the ridiculous story of Abba and Maggid? According to Abba, when he was a small child in Oregon his brother died. This was terribly tramatizing to Abba as he and his brother were very close. Shortly after the death of his brother, Abba came across a "Maggid" in the woods who told im stories and what-not about Jewishness. Abba asked his grandmother what a "Maggid" was. His grandmother being from backwoods Oregon in the 1930-40's naturally knew what a "maggid" was. According to Abba his grandmother told him a Maggid was like a little, Jewish spirit guide and that, oh yeah, their family were secret Jews. The only problem with this story according to Abba mother and sister (both quoted in Newsweek articles etc.) was that their family was NOT Jewish and had not Jewish ancestry at all. Oh... and also, Abba never had a brother! Wake up people! Your entire religious doctrine is based on a whack job! You are not Jewish. You were not adopted into Judaism or anything else based on this man's made up lineage. He has no covenant with God and you do not either based on signing a piece of paper. You were all raised in this craziness so it's difficult for you to see past it. I beg you: Start using the brain that God gave you. Look around, open your eyes. Jack Hickman was delussional. Mentally ill. (To the children of the first generation culters:) Do you really believe you have Adomic souls? Do you really believe this crap about Abba being allowed to go up to Guf and handpick (or at least be led to pick) your souls? WTF? It doesn't get more classic grandiose than that! BTW, delusions of grandiosity is a huge symptom of bipolar disorder and/or thought disorders. Are you really so far gone that you can't see the ridiculousness of all of this?
ReplyDeleteBTW, definition of Maggid: As per usual, Abba put his own spin on it. But then, what do expect from a secret Jew who couldn't even SPEAK Hebrew.
ReplyDeleteMaggid (מַגִּיד), sometimes spelled as magid, is a traditional Eastern European Jewish religious itinerant preacher, skilled as a narrator of Torah and religious stories. A preacher of the more scholarly sort was called a "darshan", and usually occupied the official position of rabbi. The title of "maggid mesharim" (= "a preacher of uprightness"; abbreviated) probably dates from the sixteenth century.
The fact that the family members in CO have been told by Gary, Michael and Joseph that since they failed to slay the beast of the mountain, the mountain will fall and they must move to ME, is not a “making a positive difference” teaching. It is classic cult fear tactics and coercion. The fact that Gary and Joseph went to DIA to attempt to slay the beast, and that Gary “allowed the beast to enter the beast to enter his body in order to make a covenant with the beast” is not a positive message either. It is a scare tactic to frighten family members in CO so that they will move to ME. I guess the beast is only after those in CO and not those in ME. Not everyone is falling for these antics. This is horrible scary cult stuff and it happened last month not 30 years ago.
ReplyDeleteAJ here isnt in the group ( sarcasm). He just happened upon this blog and is flabbergasted by the overreaction to the information (sarcasm). We are so sorry AJ... Oh wait... no we're not.
ReplyDeleteIt is not bad to want to make a positive difference in the world, what a cult does however is teach that you are the most special ones in the world and the only ones who can make a difference in the world. That is what this cult does. The children were taught by Jack that he travelled up into the spirit world, spoke to Yeshua and hand picked their souls.
ReplyDelete