Oh Pnina...you bitter bitter girl...
I didn't happen upon this and other blogs. I happened upon the rick ross message board, where this and several other blogs were listed as places to go for information. I find the whole idea of cults fascinating. I find the fact that people hang on to anger for so long even more so. One would think that after deciding to walk away from something that was so awful, one would choose to no longer let it be such a focus of their life. Or, if there is a lot of anger, confusion, whatever to deal with, that one would seek professional help to do so. So I'm also fascinated by those of you on all of these sites who are choosing to spew vitriol instead. Granted, I've been pretty sarcastic myself, so I guess I'm equally guilty.
Whether or not you want to believe I'm "in the group"...who cares? I certainly don't.
I'm not flabbergasted at all. Incredibly amused by the nastiness that you and others are so quick to throw around. Equally amused by your inability to respond to inconsistencies in your arguments. But flabbergasted? Not really.
I didn't happen upon this and other blogs. I happened upon the rick ross message board, where this and several other blogs were listed as places to go for information. I find the whole idea of cults fascinating. I find the fact that people hang on to anger for so long even more so. One would think that after deciding to walk away from something that was so awful, one would choose to no longer let it be such a focus of their life. Or, if there is a lot of anger, confusion, whatever to deal with, that one would seek professional help to do so. So I'm also fascinated by those of you on all of these sites who are choosing to spew vitriol instead. Granted, I've been pretty sarcastic myself, so I guess I'm equally guilty.
Whether or not you want to believe I'm "in the group"...who cares? I certainly don't.
I'm not flabbergasted at all. Incredibly amused by the nastiness that you and others are so quick to throw around. Equally amused by your inability to respond to inconsistencies in your arguments. But flabbergasted? Not really.
Truly I didn't care what went on with the group after I left. That is until my father, John Chevallard, tried to raped a member of the group. Then the group covered it up. That was almost 4 years ago.
That's why I doing this. Now if you don't mind and if you do really care about this topic, please leave stop leaving hurtful messages. You're upsetting the children.
AJ- you are in the group. You live in/near Clinton, ME, and I've been tracking you all day.
ReplyDeleteThis comment isn't specifically directed to this post. It's directed to people still in the family and to many of the posts and comments on this blog and on other blogs.
ReplyDeleteSome people in the family don’t believe that there should be people in charge and they don’t believe that there should be rules. No one should be able to tell them how they should live their lives. They are capable of making their own decisions, especially on things concerning who they are going to marry and what they are going to do with their money.
There are some people in this family who have titles. Either they asked for these titles or they were given certain roles. Some of the people who have titles are good people. They have great ideas and people who like their ideas for charities, or whatever that person’s project may be, support them by tithing to that cause with their time/money.
Some people with a position in the family think that just because they have a good idea for a charity that gives them the right to pressure people into giving them money. These people are called ASSHOLES. For those of you who think that you are capable of making your own decisions, don’t expect anyone with a better made-up title to do anything about the person who is pressuring you for money. If you don’t think people should be told what they can/cannot do, why do you expect someone else to tell the asshole what he/she cannot do? You don’t HAVE to give your money to ANYONE. If you don’t want to be a part of that person’s project/charity, STOP SUPPORTING THEIR PROJECT/CHARITY.
I agree that too many people in this group don’t think for themselves. And I agree that too often fear tactics are used to get people to do what certain members want them to do. The irony within this group is that although “rules” have been taught, no one actually enforces the rules. This is a good thing because all of you ARE capable of making your own decisions. If you want to get guidance on how to bring someone into the family, or you are not sure of who you should marry, you have the option of going to the elders to seek council on the subject. Here’s the thing though: YOU DO NOT NEED TO ASK ANYONE PERMISSION ON WHO YOU CAN AND CANNOT MARRY. You do not need to ask anyone permission on who you can or cannot date. If someone tells you that you need to do these things, that person either wants to feel important or that person is a fucking blind sheep who is used to letting people tell them what they can and cannot do. DON’T LISTEN TO THEM. People only have the power over you that YOU give to them. Fuck what everyone else thinks and do what you think is right in your heart.
ReplyDeleteThere are a number of you out there who have the idea that Jack Hickman’s lessons were twisted and perverse. In an attempt to prove this, letters and teachings have been posted on this blog. However, if you read through the things being taught, they are not promoting anything negative. Even the letter about the camps up north is harmless. So what if people want to store food and clothing in case of an emergency? Many people store food! It’s a great idea! It only becomes harmful if people allow themselves to be taken advantage of.
Not everyone involved in this group is a blind follower. People stay because the teachings in this group have allowed them to deepen their spiritual life. No one religion has got it all right, but they found their version of Truth within this group. For those who have found Truth in other religions/practices, good for you! There is Truth and beauty in every religion.
Posting a slathering of names of people still involved in this group (and giving directions to their homes and schools they attend) and associating their names with sexual abuse when you do not have first-hand testimonies of these people committing such acts is terrible.
If you are a victim of sexual abuse, speak out against your abuser! Your abuser did this to you! I am so deeply saddened for what happened to you. I wish that your abuser fucking rots in hell and feels a trillion times more hurt and confused than he/she EVER made you feel. I wish for you to somehow find peace in your life and find a way to move past it. The bad things that have happened to people in this family should not be blamed on “Goon” or the “ravings of a madman.” They should be blamed on the people who have committed the harmful acts.
Secondly, it was MY argument that Gary was 17 and therefore of legal age to make decisions, not the opinion of the person who hosts this blog, Pnina. I don't believe I even posted that opinion on this blog or even my own. It would be a lot easier to have a cohesive and well formed discussion if you would respond to information on the forum it is posted, so that people would be free to read the entire interplay, and no one would be misquoted.
ReplyDeleteAlso, although Pnina and I are both posting information about the Jack Hickman cult, and other people have seen fit to comment on our blogs, that does not mean we ALL, as a group of INDIVIDUALS, have the same reactions, emotions, arguments, or beliefs. Please do not treat us as a vacuous "them." We are separate people. If you continue to do so, I could use the same device you are using to lump us all into the "evil" or "misguided" or "pathetic" category. For instance I could say that you, by default in your position of disgust to our apparent emotional states, are in the same category as the anonymous or Waaaa posters whose apparent indifference to sexually deviant acts is severely troubling.
What's so different about Gary vs the other young men that were with Jack?
As I understand it (and I could be wrong, because I wasn't alive yet), Gary came in off the street. At 17, of his own volition, with no coaxing, cajoling, or other forms of coercion from Mother, Father, Brother (like the other boys), walked in and said... I like it here, I think I'll stay.
The other boys were much younger when they were originally exposed to Jack. They were battling the expectations of their family members to continue a relationship with Jack, particularly one where the boy and the family were shown deference from a person that people were perpetually fawning over. To deny a relationship with Jack at that age was very likely confusing, as they saw him almost as a family member, or a least a person of influence over their own families.
To my mind, that is a very big difference.
As always... I'm not saying I'm right. These are just my evaluations of the information I have available to me. If someone would like to present me with the facts, if Gary would like to give a statement about why he chose to stay with Jack or join him in the first place, that would be great. I'd welcome it.
Lastly, it is not a crime to become emotionally charged when someone refutes your writing, often misquoting you and twisting the information out of context and melding multiple writers and ideas into one post in order to discredit the person's sanity, well being, and credibility as a source of information. A person who has moral integrity and a solid sense of self is going to do this. A person who is un-sure of themselves, and easily manipulated is likely backdown and withdraw. But don't take my word for it. Read up on bully tactics, frequent targets of bullying, and the reasons why more people simply become bystanders to bullying to know more.
AJ- You have been warned. I WILL NOT tolerate an attach on a victim. I'm blocking you ass.
ReplyDelete