N Richard Nash wrote Porgy and Bess!!! He was best known for writing screen plays!... and we are learning "history" from a man that wrote dramatic screen plays? Baaaahhhhhhhhh.
Amazon says: "Nash has a good eye for historical detail. Though almost entirely fictitious, his Mary and Judas mesh effectively with their biblical namesakes. Judas is a sensitive and religiously driven young man whose act of betrayal comes from a burning need to know if Jesus is in fact the Messiah. Mary is the daughter of a rich man. Raped by Romans, she becomes first a Zealot revolutionary and finally an Alexandrian prostitute before being saved by the love of both Jesus and Judas. She and Judas do what they can to help and understand their enigmatic Master. Their stories are told in alternating chapters with a strong plot that brings two vague historical figures into sharp focus. Recommended for public libraries. C. Robert Nixon, M.L.S., W. Lafayette, Ind. Copyright 1986 Reed Business Information, Inc."
This is so intersting. I never heard j hove speak. In the beginning, he seemed to defer to Jack, or was speaking at the other church in East Meadow.
I am curious. Is this what you were being taught? From some of the videos and info that Pnina has posted, it seems like it was made up as it went along? Is this a possibility? And the occult stuff...was that the last of Jack's teachings? So what exactly, does this covented family believe in? Is it written in to the covenent, or do you have to believe whatever the religion keeps turning in to?
I JOINED ST. JOHN'S LUTHERAN CHURCH IN 1971 AND STAYED THROUGH TO 1981 WHEN NANCY B REVEALED TO ALL THE MEMBERS THAT JACK HICKMAN HAD COMMITED A PEDEPHILIA ACT WITH L R (AND OTHER BOYS OF THE CULT) AND CALLED IT THE PASSING OF THE SEED. WE FOUND OUT THIS WAS HAPPENING WITH MANY BOYS FOR YEARS AND HIDDEN, AS ALL SEXUAL PREDITORS CONTROL THEIR VICTIMS. MY HUSBAND AND I WERE SO SHOCKED THAT DISPITE THE YEARS OF BRAINWASHING WE HAD GONE THROUGH WE IMMEDIATELY CAME TO OUR SENSES AND REALIZED JACK HICKMAN WAS A FRAUD. I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE MAY HAVE. I HAVE A THIRTY YEAR OLD SON WHO WAS 6 MONTHS OLD AT THE TIME AND HE WOULD BE ABOUT 30 YEARS OLD NOW. IF I DID NOT TAKE A FIRM STAND HE COULD HAVE BEEN A VICTIM ALSO. I AM NEW TO THIS BLOG AND SHOCKED BY ALL I AM READING. I i AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. PS IN 1999 I WAS IN PALM BEACH, FLORIDA IN A FABULOUS RESTAURANT BAR AND TO MY SHOCK I SEE J. HICKMAN IN A FLAMBOYANT ALL WHITE MENS SUIT AND HIS YOUNG LOVER. HE LOOKED NERVOUS WHEN THEY SAW ME AND AND WHEN MY EYES MET HIS, HE KNEW ME AND MY HUSBAND VERY WELL- WE ASKED PERMISSION PRIVATELY IF WE COULD GET MARRIED- HE RAN OUT OF THE RESTAURANT.
it's would be really great if you gave a little more insight to the story you told. You said that if we had questions you were willing to answer them. So here is a question: You said you had to take a firm stance. Was this because your husband did want to leave?
I will give a big AMEN to bill cosby sweaters. I was trying to picture the very addled Jack in a white suit and the mental picture truly did not fit. "young lover" ehhhh... Younger might be a better word because in my estimation he was never without his faithful sidekick... but in palm beach? Didn't he live in CO in 1999? If this was 1989... maybe it might work. But otherwise I have to agree that the story seems off.
In all the reading that I have done on these blogs and modern doomsday (which is great), I still do not have a clear picture of where and what Jack did between 1982 and 1996 when he came back to you and formed your youth group. Did I overlook this or is there an answer to this question?
Jack did not leave right away. He may have stopped giving sermons and may have been unavailable to excommunity members, but I believe he was still around for a few more years at least. Keep in mind that his cats paw, to steal MDC's monniker, was starting the Parsifal business in 1981. I'm sure overtime they had to move, being that in business development,especially one in relocation sciences, they might have had to travel to expand the business. You can see the areas of Parsifal's centers on their website. The two likely travelled as a part of opening these business fronts.
It is also known that he lived in Santa Barbara California for a while, although it is not known how long that was, at least not by me. No one has said for certain if he ever came back to live in Ny,but they certainly visited and kept contact with select families. I know this because certain families and kids would brag about their closeness with jack during his time away.
I think the only person really qualified to.answer where he was is Goon, who was his travel companion.
I guess I can also remark that we were told he went to larger family meetings in europe to argue over the right of the family in Ny to Continue and be a part of this overall secret family. I cant say how.accurate that information actually is.
So Sorry for the time laps, I had company for the weekend, my grandson and son. It was wonderful. Thanks for clarifying details of his whereabouts during that year. I honestly believed all this time it was J. H. and his Lover in that bar in Palm Beach. hey, last week I followed a car with a driver that looked exactly like Hickman, as well. I am haunted by the image of Jack Hickman. I live in an area of Long Island with many many Jewish Orthodox Sects and thought maybe he was alive and hiding out.
Hi, Pnina, great question about my taking a firm stand in regard to leaving the Community in 1981. I will share more about this. My husband went to the Nancy B. meeting while I was home with my new baby and he came home so shocked and disturbed. There was a history here. Before discovery of "the spilling of the seed" we were concerned because at our Havdalah sevices we began to take notice of men from the Inner Circle with Rifles at every corner of the Gymnasium, as well as men patrolling the grounds outside with Rifles, at the East Meadow Building. Plus, we were married by Jack, had an interview to get his approval yet felt divided by the many secrets. Why were men with guns? I was a member of the family but no one explained any threats against us that deemed military like presents at our end of sabbath services. We could not understand the need for guns and this made us feel fear full, manipulated and angry that we were left out in the dark. Who approved of this and why were we not told or given an explaination for this. It was frightening especially how a need for Fear Tactics coincided with new information through his sermons about how we must live in Maine and how it WOULD ONE DAY break off and float over to unite with Israel in some Mystical Mysterious Way saving the Abensur Family. I just recently began reading these blogs and I am amazed that this community is still in existence with so much control and power. What I want you to understand is that once I found out he created this story about spilling of the seed to reveal his need to masturbate with boys, we found it unacceptable that a child molester would be a spiritual leader. Therefore we did not want to put our new born son in the school or involve him in the community since it had been going on for years at camp vacations where boys were given names and made to feel special. Our son was not going to be one. We left together after discussing all of the facts. (Including his unnecessary purchase of a mansion in East Islip) My regret was we gave so much money tithing 15 to 25% from our weekly salary and knew we would never get it back. Just to let you know this is bringing back many things I have long put aside. I am sure I can share much more so please feel free to ask questions.
This is really interesting Rapture. I've heard rumors about the guns and men patrolling grounds, but I've never met anyone that could confirm this information beyond a doubt.
Can you lay out the specifics: In which church did the Havdalah services take place? Christ Lutheran's or St. John's? What are some of the initials of the men that were holding guns? Did the people holding the guns have a special title, like priest, warrior, etc? Did the people with the guns tend to be younger people in their teens and 20's or older in their 30's and 40's? Was this every havdalah service or only a select few? What kind of guns were they, rifle style or handheld pistols? Were people specifically trained in how to handle these weapons? Like at a camping trip? About how many people carried guns inside the church? How many on the grounds? What reasons were the people in the church give for this presence? Did you feel like you were being threatened from within or from without? Didn't people in the neighborhood complain about there being guns at a church?
I'm sorry about all the questions and I know that it was 30 years ago, but the more facts you could provide about the situation, the better. Thanks so much.
No apologies please. I will try to remember details. Glad you asked the questions. Please be patient with my scattered written thoughts as it has been a very long time and when the memory remembers it floods out and is really very incredible. Also, blogging is a new thing for me. Freckle Face I have been working on this for hours and it won't post, so I am coping it from my laptop before I loose all of it, on my iPad. I will break it up in sections for ya.
St. John Lutheran Church was in Massapequa, where it all began and we were born again Christians learning about the Jewishness of Yeshua. The guns came out when we became a "family". Services began at East Meadow Lutheran Church ran by Pastor Don Smestadt because we grew so large and as we learned about the Jewish life we would keep the sabbath in our homes and meet for Havdalah Services there.
Men and women were separated. A large square high bema was in the center and the Torah would come out and we would dance and hackle , like the middle eastern women do, it was rather supernatural and very spiritual. We were leaving our Hebrew Christian lives and becoming Jewish. We took oaths and as members of The Abensur Family had to sign a Covenant. We had private meetings and we had to Repent. We felt like it was special and god chose us. Each one of us felt uniquely special and we learned to be smart, creative and intelligent but above all we liked it. We had unity. We had love and kindness. People opened their homes for the sabbath and we studied together during the week. We had many churches and believers and religions around us but we were special. In our minds
Then the guns came out! Here we were living a Jewish life, keeping kosher, keeping Torah, keeping the laws of purity and at our closing Sabbath service with our friends and family The Guns Came out! They were at every door inside, I'd say 4 and one or two on bema around J.H. Outside at entrances and on roof and around building, maybe 5 or so. I suppose it was figured we could believe anything so, we had already denounced the Lutheran Church for their antisemitism and left our Christian past and our born again beliefs and our families and friends that love and care about us to live as Jews soo what's a few Guns at worship service. We needed more fear and intimidation. Whren I first saw this I felt scared as shit. There was a low hum and it was the faint question as we all sat on the floor together. "what are the guns for?
The guns were rifles. I remember the shoulder straps. I would say they were in there twenties. They were in the Inner Circle, Princes. I remember one named Bruce, he was always around J.H. And a V.C. Special Inner Circle boys raised by J.H. People like K.U. (who left the community which was a huge disgrace to his member parents and it really pissed off J.H.). So, it was him, in charge of the gun boys, his inner circle of friends. I recall a J.L. One of Jacks Lacky's. I wish I could remember more, but I know they were picked to be princes during the Southhold Secret Training Missions where they were taught to shoot. ( in more ways than one! He he. The princes were a step down from being an Elder.
They stood around the inside, outside and rooftop and held Walkie Talkies. I myself now am curious what they were told to shoot! A crazy born again or an orthodox Jew. I had a friend, J.B. and he was a teacher for the young gunners, he held a rifle at times as well. I lived with him, his wife and another couple a few years prior and I know being chosen made him feel special because he was chosen to do these special tasks for the cause. G.B., his brother as well. They were sport deer hunters. Being part of the inner circle made these guys feel special and superior and chosen and powerful. Why the need for guns? Well we were given no explanation per say but that we needed protection. In retrospect it scared the shit out of all of us! It was a wonderfully opportunity for J.H. To further manipulate us even more because what came next was more control with private family repentant meetings and talk of eventually living in Maine. Yes we were at this time told it was safe and a calling because we would be saved there and delivered by god.
So, we had friends at service and family members, with young men holding rifles, then we would have our top top secret family meeting and all that was not in the family had to go outside, more division, these meetings were Horrible, they were "hell"! Everyone was sitting on floor, hundreds of people and the sinner would have to stand in front of everyone and repent of whatever he was told he did wrong. Many of my friends were made to tell very personal things they did, one who left her husband and it was not acceptable. It was humiliating and sad. You need to understand, prior we had a huge repentance. Where we all laid flat on floor for hours and repented all our sins..this would allow us to be a signed covenant member of athe Abensur Family, if we were accepted! I gave up all my worldly goods, gave to the poor and lived with families to learn the way to live properly, with household duties and chores and an Abba in charge of the household. I was on my own at 14, worked at 15 and had my own apartment at 18 after moving out of my sisters home. My parents died when I was eighteen. This was incredible that I became so broken. So needy by then wallowing in quilt all the time. We were made to feel so bad..all the time. Needing to repent or deal with something ridiculously reduculous! We lost our original path. We became so brainwashed by this point. So when we all laid repenting J.H. Was standing above us and we listened to his words as if it was coming from god himself.
Ok, back to the guns. The boys were handpicked and trained in Southhold, belong Island, separate from family camping times. It was secret. This was " building of a Cult".
At this point I did not return to services often. I was extremely uncomfortable in the presence of guns around us and the fact that we were put in the position to accept even when it made us feel uneasy. My husband went alone. Along with the divisions between groups and the stories of moving to Maine and the huge amount of Tithing expected and lots of things all together made us very uneasy. We now had a baby and we did not feel comfortable anymore. It was not easy for us. We had a lot of problems after our decision to leave, our final decision was after the "Seed". But there were no reasons , in our hearts, to make us want to stay. We were not in an inner circle and we had very few friends at this time. Many of our original good friends had left the community prior or around that time. Decisions to leave were very private and not talked about. They just left.
And yes, when the guns came out, the community around us was not happy. Police presents was about and that became the enemy too. The inner circle and J.H. wanted us to feel a threat an uneasiness from society and a fear. That was the Cult Philosophy and Control. News articles were published in Newsday and New York Times. We had opposition from Synogogues and Churches. We were a threat to the Jewish Parents and the Christian Parents because they feared their children would join Hickman's Cult. At first we all thought well sure because we are the True Church of Yeshua and would argue any good abiding Jew or Christian, and did. Then after I left and stood back and thought about all the things we went through and our beliefs I realized how subtle we were brainwashed. This was not Judaism and it was Not Messianic Judaism it was Hickmanism....But....as families grew.. in the early 70's families adopted children from Korea..we grew more, then as kids grew up they married (with J.H. approval of course) and they had babies (you guys) and they grew more and more. This was his plan from day one. To have a large group that would always believe in what ever he does or says is right for his goal. He profited financially and he lived openly as a homosexual/child abuser with such self righteousness and lack of love for others while giving other people the guilt and fear.
All I can say is that I was an elder for the last three years of the community before it all fell apart and I never wore a gun, held a rifle or saw anyone else do so during services or at other times. There were no handguns, rifles or any other types of guns that I was aware of. Some men did wear knives on their belts, the type that we used when we went camping. But as far as guns, unless someone went to a lot of trouble to hid them from me, and I was an elder, then I have to say this is just a rumor. There was a world load of bad things with the community as we all learned eventually, but guns at services were not one of them.
re: guns at service - marvin is right, before SBS, there were no guns at the services on sat nite. there were guards, on the roof, around the building, with JH... but with walkie-talkies.
there was enough crazy shit, no need to make stuff up!
Marvin, I do not recall you, or what your position in the community was before you became an elder. I am curious...did you take someone's place? If so who's? How did you become an elder?
You were an elder from 1979-1982 or there abouts? Did you attend the meeting that Nancy Boles held for the commuity? What made you leave? What made you believe Nancy? What did you say to Jack? What did he say to you?
And if you stayed around for a while, what was really going on with the money?
I disagree with you about the guns. I was there from 1970- 1979 and as we transitioned out of St. Johns Lutheran to the East Meadow Sat night services, there were many stages. One was the walkie talkies. Two was the patrolling outside and inside the building creating paranoia and fear.. Three was the guns. I saw them and many others did as well. One of my best friends thought it was an honor when he got picked to do this.....because he wasn't picked to be an elder.
Since you seem new to Pnina's blog, I would be thrilled to hear you as a guest blogger...tell us when you joined...how you came to be an elder.....how you dealt with the physical abuse for sins that you saw...the beatings by the elders. DId you participate? How did you feel?
I would like to know, as an elder, going through the transition, what made you leave, if you did, and what made others stay. I would love to hear from you on Pnina's and Frecke Faces blogs.
Rick, hate to say it, but I saw what I saw, and I know what the inner people saw, at the time....not 30 years later. Go back and read the Foibles article. The guns are discussed. Gun training was a privalege for the most attractive young men.
ExCommunity I have no idea who you are so I do not know who I am "talking" to. Unlike most of the people who post here I have no concerns about identifying myself by name and picture, and obviously neither does Rick. I became a member of "the community" from it's begining. I first starting attending bible study classes and fellowship meeting at what was then Christ Lutheran Church in East Meadow in 1972. I was introduced to this group by my then fiance who later became my wife. We are both born Jewish. We had a traditional Jewish ceremony in the shul I attended with my family. We then had a "hebrew-christian" ceremony at Christ Lutheran which was officiated by Pastor Don. All of our "community friends were there but not my family as they did not know about it. My parents were both Holocaust survivors and I could not bring myself to try and even explain my newfound belief in hebrew-christianity. When JH eventually drew up the covenant papers we both were among the first signers as we were both born Jews and I was a Levite. Since you say you were there from 1970-1979 you should know first hand how much of a "celebrity" status was confered on members who were born Jews. We were a hot item and used many times for evangelical purposes and to give legitimacy to the whole concept of what became Shoresh Yishai. I eventually was "chosen" by JH to be an elder and did not replace anyone. I was told he received my name for G-d as he did for all other elders. I had my elder group and gave counsel, advice and did the best I could to help people live what I thought was a spiritual life. Yes I was there the night in East Meadow when Nancy Boles exposed everything based on all the research she and others did. My wife (techincally my ex-wife as we are no longer married) and I spent many nights after that in deep conversation and prayer trying to decide what was right. Many of my elder group came to our home, called and asked for guidance and direction. I was as lost as they were and we soon came to realize there were too many discrepancies that could not be explained and that our heart and soul told us it was time to leave. I met with JH in person and told him we were leaving and going to rejoin mainstream judaism. He wished us luck and said we were always welcome to "rejoin the family" if we felt led to. We never did. As you pointed out there were stages of transition from St. John's to Christ Lutheran to Kahol Kodesh Shoresh Yishai. We went from Sunday services to Saturday night services, we began safety patrols in order to make sure our "family" was safe from potential enemies. Was this paranoia, most likey yes since we never were on anyone's radar as a threat in any way. Walkie talkies became part of this so we communicate with each other, some people were stationed on the roof of the building, some in the parking lot, some just walked the perimeter of the building. Some men on patrol carried collapable batons, some wore hunting style knives on their belts, but no one that I knew at any time ever carried a handgun or rifle. I was an elder, an orginal signer of the covenant, a born jew and a levite to top that off. I even for a time being sat in my car outside the house in massapequa where JH lived on guard against enemies, which of course never showed up. I think I was as close to the inner circle as anyone outside people like CG, LR, Pastor Don or Pastor John. If there guns it must have been a very well kept secret as I never knew about them. There was gun training in the house in Southold and in Maine. This was twofold, for hunting and for protection. However these guns did not make it to Saturday night services with any knowledge on my part.As far as your question about money, I have no idea as I had nothing to do with money or funds. If you do respond can you use your real name please.
Thanks Pnina. I just would like to know who "exfollower" is and why his memories are conflicted with mine. he says he does not remember me which is sort of strange considering all the attention those of us who are born jews used to receive. The first to be called to prayer, the special attention during services, me being an elder, etc. All I can comment on are my memories and people like Rick who were right there with me. I am out in the open and not hiding behind a screen name. Thanks again for your kind words and efforts in this situation.
This is a movie that you should all see about the power of cults. Its up for some Academy Award, however I think you need to rent it on tv or net flex or buy it. You will not be disappointed.
Is Freckle Face her real name? Is ExCommunity using her real name? Are you telling people to ignore them too? And what in the world gave you the idea i had any desire to start a new agey culty group? If you make an effort to get to know me, you will know that is completely absurd. i merely created a facebook group (that is what facebook calls it, a Group). It is merely a simpler way for people to communicate with each other. Even though i read your blog, i do not presume to know you. We can google video chat if you want to get to know me better.
Ugh. Can we please stop having this dialogue over and over again? Here's the gist, okay: you want to reconnect with the teachings and see what is being taught since 1987 when you "lost touch". You want to know the prophesies, not so you can laugh (like the rest of us do), and do an OMG, but you want to know because you still believe in Jack as a demigod/prophet. You always want people to "call" you, over and over again, you have done this with many aliases to try to get people to divulge information of any type. This may include people others know, information, teachings, locations, prophesies, etc. In no way have you presented your requests in a way that seems rationale or honest. In fact your requests time and again have set off my creep meter. You are transparent to the point that we continually figure out your new aliases because you are the ONLY person on these blogs with this type of reaction/discussion. Because EVERYONE ELSE knows that Jack was full of shit. EVERYONE ELSE is outraged about what took place. EVERYONE ELSE may be severely pissed about what has gone on, but still have a moral imperative to not throw various members under the bus and give you access to their information like your personal 411. This "group" you created, which I now cannot find, so facebook likely deleted you, is just another ploy for you to gather names and info and have an audience.
Yes, yes, I know you're going to call me judgey again. Bite me. Whatever.
The point... who are the contributing authors of the blogs? What does it say... oh right, it says Freckle Face and Pnina. It does NOT say Jacob, Michael, Theo, Epstein barr, Solace, Vast space, blacklight 177, Sabat, beyondeverythingnow, simply organic or whatever other incarnation of crazy that you are this week. I think as administrators of both blogs we have been very tolerant, but you have officially reached the bullshit breaking point.
I cannot speak for this blog, but you will not be posting on But Seriously any longer. I believe you have now been given all the information that you require. If you would like to start your own blog, I think that would be a viable solution for you to gain followers. Perhaps you will find like-minded individuals, but this is not YOUR place, nor do we agree with pretty-much anything you have to say!
I forgot you're awesomeness is too awesome for anyone to understand. You already told Freckle face that you wanted back in the "Family" and that you were kick out. You are no better then Jack. Well actually I must ask do you like to touch kids? Because if not then you're not AS bad. I think what I'm trying to say is "Suck it bitch". I know you think you're a god. I've read up on you. You are delusional ape.
Be fierce ladies! As it was said so well on the Xfiles..The Truth is out there. I privately wrote to you Freckle Face back in late March, and then stopped reading to digest my own memories, I find these early postings interesting; but the fat guy in a white suit? seriously? teee heee heee! Keeping good thoughts for you both in your journey! shalom...Auntie
There is a lot of guilt involved to have been a part of a cult . I was part of the cult for some years and during that time I was active and tithed , therefore I was part of " letting it happen"I was naive and trusting . Fortunately ,I woke up , left and saved my family from disaster .I would like to hear an apology to all of us , from John Hove and Don Smestad , for also "letting it happen "or were they mentaly disturbed also , as Jack hickman must have been ??????????? Bitte
Has anyone heard of this book? It came out in 1986.
ReplyDelete"BEHOLD THE MAN "
-THE STORY OF MARY MAGDALENE AND JUDAS ISCARIOT -
BY
N. RICHARD NASH
A NOVEL
N Richard Nash wrote Porgy and Bess!!! He was best known for writing screen plays!... and we are learning "history" from a man that wrote dramatic screen plays? Baaaahhhhhhhhh.
ReplyDeleteAmazon says: "Nash has a good eye for historical detail. Though almost entirely fictitious, his Mary and Judas mesh effectively with their biblical namesakes. Judas is a sensitive and religiously driven young man whose act of betrayal comes from a burning need to know if Jesus is in fact the Messiah. Mary is the daughter of a rich man. Raped by Romans, she becomes first a Zealot revolutionary and finally an Alexandrian prostitute before being saved by the love of both Jesus and Judas. She and Judas do what they can to help and understand their enigmatic Master. Their stories are told in alternating chapters with a strong plot that brings two vague historical figures into sharp focus. Recommended for public libraries. C. Robert Nixon, M.L.S., W. Lafayette, Ind.
ReplyDeleteCopyright 1986 Reed Business Information, Inc."
This is so intersting. I never heard j hove speak. In the beginning, he seemed to defer to Jack, or was speaking at the other church in East Meadow.
ReplyDeleteI am curious. Is this what you were being taught? From some of the videos and info that Pnina has posted, it seems like it was made up as it went along? Is this a possibility? And the occult stuff...was that the last of Jack's teachings? So what exactly, does this covented family believe in? Is it written in to the covenent, or do you have to believe whatever the religion keeps turning in to?
I JOINED ST. JOHN'S LUTHERAN CHURCH IN 1971 AND STAYED THROUGH TO 1981 WHEN NANCY B REVEALED TO ALL THE MEMBERS THAT JACK HICKMAN HAD COMMITED A PEDEPHILIA ACT WITH L R (AND OTHER BOYS OF THE CULT) AND CALLED IT THE PASSING OF THE SEED. WE FOUND OUT THIS WAS HAPPENING WITH MANY BOYS FOR YEARS AND HIDDEN, AS ALL SEXUAL PREDITORS CONTROL THEIR VICTIMS. MY HUSBAND AND I WERE SO SHOCKED THAT DISPITE THE YEARS OF BRAINWASHING WE HAD GONE THROUGH WE IMMEDIATELY CAME TO OUR SENSES AND REALIZED JACK HICKMAN WAS A FRAUD. I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE MAY HAVE. I HAVE A THIRTY YEAR OLD SON WHO WAS 6 MONTHS OLD AT THE TIME AND HE WOULD BE ABOUT 30 YEARS OLD NOW. IF I DID NOT TAKE A FIRM STAND HE COULD HAVE BEEN A VICTIM ALSO.
ReplyDeleteI AM NEW TO THIS BLOG AND SHOCKED BY ALL I AM READING. I i AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
PS IN 1999 I WAS IN PALM BEACH, FLORIDA IN A FABULOUS RESTAURANT BAR AND TO MY SHOCK I SEE J. HICKMAN IN A FLAMBOYANT ALL WHITE MENS SUIT AND HIS YOUNG LOVER. HE LOOKED NERVOUS WHEN THEY SAW ME AND AND WHEN MY EYES MET HIS, HE KNEW ME AND MY HUSBAND VERY WELL- WE ASKED PERMISSION PRIVATELY IF WE COULD GET MARRIED-
HE RAN OUT OF THE RESTAURANT.
it's would be really great if you gave a little more insight to the story you told. You said that if we had questions you were willing to answer them. So here is a question: You said you had to take a firm stance. Was this because your husband did want to leave?
DeleteWait why would he run out of the restaurant? Do you know something about him that wasn't made public?
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure about this story.... Jack wasn't "running" anywhere in 1999. He could barely walk.
ReplyDeletealso his version of flamboyant dress was his god awful bill cosby sweaters
ReplyDeleteI will give a big AMEN to bill cosby sweaters. I was trying to picture the very addled Jack in a white suit and the mental picture truly did not fit. "young lover" ehhhh... Younger might be a better word because in my estimation he was never without his faithful sidekick... but in palm beach? Didn't he live in CO in 1999? If this was 1989... maybe it might work. But otherwise I have to agree that the story seems off.
ReplyDeleteWhen did Parsifal open an office in Palm Beach?
ReplyDeleteIt's Palm Bay. There's no Parsifal office in Palm Beach.
ReplyDeleteHi Willow,
ReplyDeleteIn all the reading that I have done on these blogs and modern doomsday (which is great), I still do not have a clear picture of where and what Jack did between 1982 and 1996 when he came back to you and formed your youth group. Did I overlook this or is there an answer to this question?
Thank you.
Jack did not leave right away. He may have stopped giving sermons and may have been unavailable to excommunity members, but I believe he was still around for a few more years at least. Keep in mind that his cats paw, to steal MDC's monniker, was starting the Parsifal business in 1981. I'm sure overtime they had to move, being that in business development,especially one in relocation sciences, they might have had to travel to expand the business. You can see the areas of Parsifal's centers on their website. The two likely travelled as a part of opening these business fronts.
DeleteIt is also known that he lived in Santa Barbara California for a while, although it is not known how long that was, at least not by me. No one has said for certain if he ever came back to live in Ny,but they certainly visited and kept contact with select families. I know this because certain families and kids would brag about their closeness with jack during his time away.
I think the only person really qualified to.answer where he was is Goon, who was his travel companion.
I guess I can also remark that we were told he went to larger family meetings in europe to argue over the right of the family in Ny to Continue and be a part of this overall secret family. I cant say how.accurate that information actually is.
So Sorry for the time laps, I had company for the weekend, my grandson and son. It was wonderful. Thanks for clarifying details of his whereabouts during that year.
ReplyDeleteI honestly believed all this time it was J. H. and his Lover in that bar in Palm Beach. hey, last week I followed a car with a driver that looked exactly like Hickman, as well. I am haunted by the image of Jack Hickman. I live in an area of Long Island with many many Jewish Orthodox Sects and thought maybe he was alive and hiding out.
Hi, Pnina, great question about my taking a firm stand in regard to leaving the Community in 1981. I will share more about this. My husband went to the Nancy B. meeting while I was home with my new baby and he came home so shocked and disturbed.
ReplyDeleteThere was a history here. Before discovery of "the spilling of the seed" we were concerned because at our Havdalah sevices we began to take notice of men from the Inner Circle with Rifles at every corner of the Gymnasium, as well as men patrolling the grounds outside with Rifles, at the East Meadow Building.
Plus, we were married by Jack, had an interview to get his approval yet felt divided by the many secrets. Why were men with guns? I was a member of the family but no one explained any threats against us that deemed military like presents at our end of sabbath services.
We could not understand the need for guns and this made us feel fear full, manipulated and angry that we were left out in the dark. Who approved of this and why were we not told or given an explaination for this. It was frightening especially how a need for Fear Tactics coincided with new information through his sermons about how we must live in Maine and how it WOULD ONE DAY break off and float over to unite with Israel in some Mystical Mysterious Way saving the Abensur Family.
I just recently began reading these blogs and I am amazed that this community is still in existence with so much control and power.
What I want you to understand is that once I found out he created this story about spilling of the seed to reveal his need to masturbate with boys, we found it unacceptable that a child molester would be a spiritual leader. Therefore we did not want to put our new born son in the school or involve him in the community since it had been going on for years at camp vacations where boys were given names and made to feel special. Our son was not going to be one. We left together after discussing all of the facts. (Including his unnecessary purchase of a mansion in East Islip)
My regret was we gave so much money tithing 15 to 25% from our weekly salary and knew we would never get it back.
Just to let you know this is bringing back many things I have long put aside. I am sure I can share much more so please feel free to ask questions.
This is really interesting Rapture. I've heard rumors about the guns and men patrolling grounds, but I've never met anyone that could confirm this information beyond a doubt.
DeleteCan you lay out the specifics:
In which church did the Havdalah services take place? Christ Lutheran's or St. John's?
What are some of the initials of the men that were holding guns?
Did the people holding the guns have a special title, like priest, warrior, etc?
Did the people with the guns tend to be younger people in their teens and 20's or older in their 30's and 40's?
Was this every havdalah service or only a select few?
What kind of guns were they, rifle style or handheld pistols?
Were people specifically trained in how to handle these weapons? Like at a camping trip?
About how many people carried guns inside the church?
How many on the grounds?
What reasons were the people in the church give for this presence?
Did you feel like you were being threatened from within or from without?
Didn't people in the neighborhood complain about there being guns at a church?
I'm sorry about all the questions and I know that it was 30 years ago, but the more facts you could provide about the situation, the better. Thanks so much.
No apologies please. I will try to remember details. Glad you asked the questions. Please be patient with my scattered written thoughts as it has been a very long time and when the memory remembers it floods out and is really very incredible. Also, blogging is a new thing for me. Freckle Face I have been working on this for hours and it won't post, so I am coping it from my laptop before I loose all of it, on my iPad. I will break it up in sections for ya.
DeleteSt. John Lutheran Church was in Massapequa, where it all began and we were born again Christians learning about the Jewishness of Yeshua. The guns came out when we became a "family". Services began at East Meadow Lutheran Church ran by Pastor Don Smestadt because we grew so large and as we learned about the Jewish life we would keep the sabbath in our homes and meet for Havdalah Services there.
DeleteMen and women were separated. A large square high bema was in the center and the Torah would come out and we would dance and hackle , like the middle eastern women do, it was rather supernatural and very spiritual. We were leaving our Hebrew Christian lives and becoming Jewish. We took oaths and as members of The Abensur Family had to sign a Covenant. We had private meetings and we had to Repent. We felt like it was special and god chose us. Each one of us felt uniquely special and we learned to be smart, creative and intelligent but above all we liked it. We had unity. We had love and kindness. People opened their homes for the sabbath and we studied together during the week. We had many churches and believers and religions around us but we were special. In our minds
DeleteThen the guns came out! Here we were living a Jewish life, keeping kosher, keeping Torah, keeping the laws of purity and at our closing Sabbath service with our friends and family The Guns Came out! They were at every door inside, I'd say 4 and one or two on bema around J.H.
DeleteOutside at entrances and on roof and around building, maybe 5 or so. I suppose it was figured we could believe anything so, we had already denounced the Lutheran Church for their antisemitism and left our Christian past and our born again beliefs and our families and friends that love and care about us to live as Jews soo what's a few Guns at worship service. We needed more fear and intimidation. Whren I first saw this I felt scared as shit. There was a low hum and it was the faint question as we all sat on the floor together. "what are the guns for?
The guns were rifles. I remember the shoulder straps. I would say they were in there twenties. They were in the Inner Circle, Princes. I remember one named Bruce, he was always around J.H. And a V.C. Special Inner Circle boys raised by J.H. People like K.U. (who left the community which was a huge disgrace to his member parents and it really pissed off J.H.). So, it was him, in charge of the gun boys, his inner circle of friends. I recall a J.L. One of Jacks Lacky's.
DeleteI wish I could remember more, but I know they were picked to be princes during the Southhold Secret Training Missions where they were taught to shoot. ( in more ways than one! He he.
The princes were a step down from being an Elder.
They stood around the inside, outside and rooftop and held Walkie Talkies. I myself now am curious what they were told to shoot! A crazy born again or an orthodox Jew.
DeleteI had a friend, J.B. and he was a teacher for the young gunners, he held a rifle at times as well. I lived with him, his wife and another couple a few years prior and I know being chosen made him feel special because he was chosen to do these special tasks for the cause. G.B., his brother as well. They were sport deer hunters. Being part of the inner circle made these guys feel special and superior and chosen and powerful.
Why the need for guns? Well we were given no explanation per say but that we needed protection. In retrospect it scared the shit out of all of us! It was a wonderfully opportunity for J.H. To further manipulate us even more because what came next was more control with private family repentant meetings and talk of eventually living in Maine. Yes we were at this time told it was safe and a calling because we would be saved there and delivered by god.
So, we had friends at service and family members, with young men holding rifles, then we would have our top top secret family meeting and all that was not in the family had to go outside, more division, these meetings were Horrible, they were "hell"! Everyone was sitting on floor, hundreds of people and the sinner would have to stand in front of everyone and repent of whatever he was told he did wrong. Many of my friends were made to tell very personal things they did, one who left her husband and it was not acceptable. It was humiliating and sad. You need to understand, prior we had a huge repentance. Where we all laid flat on floor for hours and repented all our sins..this would allow us to be a signed covenant member of athe Abensur Family, if we were accepted! I gave up all my worldly goods, gave to the poor and lived with families to learn the way to live properly, with household duties and chores and an Abba in charge of the household. I was on my own at 14, worked at 15 and had my own apartment at 18 after moving out of my sisters home. My parents died when I was eighteen. This was incredible that I became so broken. So needy by then wallowing in quilt all the time. We were made to feel so bad..all the time. Needing to repent or deal with something ridiculously reduculous! We lost our original path. We became so brainwashed by this point.
So when we all laid repenting J.H. Was standing above us and we listened to his words as if it was coming from god himself.
Ok, back to the guns. The boys were handpicked and trained in Southhold, belong Island, separate from family camping times. It was secret.
DeleteThis was " building of a Cult".
At this point I did not return to services often. I was extremely uncomfortable in the presence of guns around us and the fact that we were put in the position to accept even when it made us feel uneasy. My husband went alone. Along with the divisions between groups and the stories of moving to Maine and the huge amount of Tithing expected and lots of things all together made us very uneasy. We now had a baby and we did not feel comfortable anymore. It was not easy for us. We had a lot of problems after our decision to leave, our final decision was after the "Seed". But there were no reasons , in our hearts, to make us want to stay. We were not in an inner circle and we had very few friends at this time. Many of our original good friends had left the community prior or around that time. Decisions to leave were very private and not talked about. They just left.
DeleteAnd yes, when the guns came out, the community around us was not happy. Police presents was about and that became the enemy too. The inner circle and J.H. wanted us to feel a threat an uneasiness from society and a fear. That was the Cult Philosophy and Control.
News articles were published in Newsday and New York Times. We had opposition from Synogogues and Churches. We were a threat to the Jewish Parents and the Christian Parents because they feared their children would join Hickman's Cult. At first we all thought well sure because we are the True Church of Yeshua and would argue any good abiding Jew or Christian, and did. Then after I left and stood back and thought about all the things we went through and our beliefs I realized how subtle we were brainwashed. This was not Judaism and it was Not Messianic Judaism it was Hickmanism....But....as families grew.. in the early 70's families adopted children from Korea..we grew more, then as kids grew up they married (with J.H. approval of course) and they had babies (you guys) and they grew more and more. This was his plan from day one. To have a large group that would always believe in what ever he does or says is right for his goal. He profited financially and he lived openly as a homosexual/child abuser with such self righteousness and lack of love for others while giving other people the guilt and fear.
All I can say is that I was an elder for the last three years of the community before it all fell apart and I never wore a gun, held a rifle or saw anyone else do so during services or at other times. There were no handguns, rifles or any other types of guns that I was aware of. Some men did wear knives on their belts, the type that we used when we went camping. But as far as guns, unless someone went to a lot of trouble to hid them from me, and I was an elder, then I have to say this is just a rumor. There was a world load of bad things with the community as we all learned eventually, but guns at services were not one of them.
Deletere: guns at service - marvin is right, before SBS, there were no guns at the services on sat nite.
Deletethere were guards, on the roof, around the building, with JH... but with walkie-talkies.
there was enough crazy shit, no need to make stuff up!
Marvin, I do not recall you, or what your position in the community was before you became an elder. I am curious...did you take someone's place? If so who's? How did you become an elder?
DeleteYou were an elder from 1979-1982 or there abouts? Did you attend the meeting that Nancy Boles held for the commuity? What made you leave? What made you believe Nancy? What did you say to Jack? What did he say to you?
And if you stayed around for a while, what was really going on with the money?
I disagree with you about the guns. I was there from 1970- 1979 and as we transitioned out of St. Johns Lutheran to the East Meadow Sat night services, there were many stages. One was the walkie talkies. Two was the patrolling outside and inside the building creating paranoia and fear.. Three was the guns. I saw them and many others did as well. One of my best friends thought it was an honor when he got picked to do this.....because he wasn't picked to be an elder.
Since you seem new to Pnina's blog, I would be thrilled to hear you as a guest blogger...tell us when you joined...how you came to be an elder.....how you dealt with the physical abuse for sins that you saw...the beatings by the elders. DId you participate? How did you feel?
I would like to know, as an elder, going through the transition, what made you leave, if you did, and what made others stay. I would love to hear from you on Pnina's and Frecke Faces blogs.
Rick, hate to say it, but I saw what I saw, and I know what the inner people saw, at the time....not 30 years later. Go back and read the Foibles article. The guns are discussed. Gun training was a privalege for the most attractive young men.
ExCommunity I have no idea who you are so I do not know who I am "talking" to. Unlike most of the people who post here I have no concerns about identifying myself by name and picture, and obviously neither does Rick. I became a member of "the community" from it's begining. I first starting attending bible study classes and fellowship meeting at what was then Christ Lutheran Church in East Meadow in 1972. I was introduced to this group by my then fiance who later became my wife. We are both born Jewish. We had a traditional Jewish ceremony in the shul I attended with my family. We then had a "hebrew-christian" ceremony at Christ Lutheran which was officiated by Pastor Don. All of our "community friends were there but not my family as they did not know about it. My parents were both Holocaust survivors and I could not bring myself to try and even explain my newfound belief in hebrew-christianity. When JH eventually drew up the covenant papers we both were among the first signers as we were both born Jews and I was a Levite. Since you say you were there from 1970-1979 you should know first hand how much of a "celebrity" status was confered on members who were born Jews. We were a hot item and used many times for evangelical purposes and to give legitimacy to the whole concept of what became Shoresh Yishai. I eventually was "chosen" by JH to be an elder and did not replace anyone. I was told he received my name for G-d as he did for all other elders. I had my elder group and gave counsel, advice and did the best I could to help people live what I thought was a spiritual life. Yes I was there the night in East Meadow when Nancy Boles exposed everything based on all the research she and others did. My wife (techincally my ex-wife as we are no longer married) and I spent many nights after that in deep conversation and prayer trying to decide what was right. Many of my elder group came to our home, called and asked for guidance and direction. I was as lost as they were and we soon came to realize there were too many discrepancies that could not be explained and that our heart and soul told us it was time to leave. I met with JH in person and told him we were leaving and going to rejoin mainstream judaism. He wished us luck and said we were always welcome to "rejoin the family" if we felt led to. We never did. As you pointed out there were stages of transition from St. John's to Christ Lutheran to Kahol Kodesh Shoresh Yishai. We went from Sunday services to Saturday night services, we began safety patrols in order to make sure our "family" was safe from potential enemies. Was this paranoia, most likey yes since we never were on anyone's radar as a threat in any way. Walkie talkies became part of this so we communicate with each other, some people were stationed on the roof of the building, some in the parking lot, some just walked the perimeter of the building. Some men on patrol carried collapable batons, some wore hunting style knives on their belts, but no one that I knew at any time ever carried a handgun or rifle. I was an elder, an orginal signer of the covenant, a born jew and a levite to top that off. I even for a time being sat in my car outside the house in massapequa where JH lived on guard against enemies, which of course never showed up. I think I was as close to the inner circle as anyone outside people like CG, LR, Pastor Don or Pastor John. If there guns it must have been a very well kept secret as I never knew about them. There was gun training in the house in Southold and in Maine. This was twofold, for hunting and for protection. However these guns did not make it to Saturday night services with any knowledge on my part.As far as your question about money, I have no idea as I had nothing to do with money or funds. If you do respond can you use your real name please.
DeleteHi Marvin,
DeleteThank you for you history! I really love that we get to hear from all sides and backgrounds. Truly, thank you.
Thanks Pnina. I just would like to know who "exfollower" is and why his memories are conflicted with mine. he says he does not remember me which is sort of strange considering all the attention those of us who are born jews used to receive. The first to be called to prayer, the special attention during services, me being an elder, etc. All I can comment on are my memories and people like Rick who were right there with me. I am out in the open and not hiding behind a screen name. Thanks again for your kind words and efforts in this situation.
DeleteThis is a movie that you should all see about the power of cults. Its up for some Academy Award, however I think you need to rent it on tv or net flex or buy it. You will not be disappointed.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1493409049/
The link above is a short trailer of the film. Martha Marcy May Marlene. 2011
DeleteIs Freckle Face her real name? Is ExCommunity using her real name? Are you telling people to ignore them too? And what in the world gave you the idea i had any desire to start a new agey culty group? If you make an effort to get to know me, you will know that is completely absurd. i merely created a facebook group (that is what facebook calls it, a Group). It is merely a simpler way for people to communicate with each other. Even though i read your blog, i do not presume to know you. We can google video chat if you want to get to know me better.
ReplyDeleteUgh. Can we please stop having this dialogue over and over again? Here's the gist, okay: you want to reconnect with the teachings and see what is being taught since 1987 when you "lost touch". You want to know the prophesies, not so you can laugh (like the rest of us do), and do an OMG, but you want to know because you still believe in Jack as a demigod/prophet. You always want people to "call" you, over and over again, you have done this with many aliases to try to get people to divulge information of any type. This may include people others know, information, teachings, locations, prophesies, etc. In no way have you presented your requests in a way that seems rationale or honest. In fact your requests time and again have set off my creep meter. You are transparent to the point that we continually figure out your new aliases because you are the ONLY person on these blogs with this type of reaction/discussion. Because EVERYONE ELSE knows that Jack was full of shit. EVERYONE ELSE is outraged about what took place. EVERYONE ELSE may be severely pissed about what has gone on, but still have a moral imperative to not throw various members under the bus and give you access to their information like your personal 411. This "group" you created, which I now cannot find, so facebook likely deleted you, is just another ploy for you to gather names and info and have an audience.
DeleteYes, yes, I know you're going to call me judgey again. Bite me. Whatever.
The point... who are the contributing authors of the blogs? What does it say... oh right, it says Freckle Face and Pnina. It does NOT say Jacob, Michael, Theo, Epstein barr, Solace, Vast space, blacklight 177, Sabat, beyondeverythingnow, simply organic or whatever other incarnation of crazy that you are this week. I think as administrators of both blogs we have been very tolerant, but you have officially reached the bullshit breaking point.
I cannot speak for this blog, but you will not be posting on But Seriously any longer. I believe you have now been given all the information that you require. If you would like to start your own blog, I think that would be a viable solution for you to gain followers. Perhaps you will find like-minded individuals, but this is not YOUR place, nor do we agree with pretty-much anything you have to say!
She says SUCK IT BITCH so much more eloquently than I. But the sentiment is the same. From here on out you will be removed.
DeleteI forgot you're awesomeness is too awesome for anyone to understand. You already told Freckle face that you wanted back in the "Family" and that you were kick out. You are no better then Jack. Well actually I must ask do you like to touch kids? Because if not then you're not AS bad. I think what I'm trying to say is "Suck it bitch". I know you think you're a god. I've read up on you. You are delusional ape.
ReplyDeleteYou Go Girls!!! Wish you were around in the 70's!
ReplyDeleteBe fierce ladies! As it was said so well on the Xfiles..The Truth is out there.
ReplyDeleteI privately wrote to you Freckle Face back in late March, and then stopped reading to digest my own memories, I find these early postings interesting; but the fat guy in a white suit? seriously? teee heee heee! Keeping good thoughts for you both in your journey!
shalom...Auntie
There is a lot of guilt involved to have been a part of a cult . I was part of the cult for some years and during that time I was active and tithed , therefore I was part of " letting it happen"I was naive and trusting . Fortunately ,I woke up , left and saved my family from disaster .I would like to hear an apology to all of us , from John Hove and Don Smestad , for also "letting it happen "or were they mentaly disturbed also , as Jack hickman must have been ??????????? Bitte
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